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Musicians' Union Rates (2)

7/3/2018

 
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  • Correspondence
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This is a follow-up post to Musicians Union Rates (1). A recent music graduate puts himself forward for a job without first checking the details, and then campaigns because it's not paying Musicians' Union Rates. Fair enough, but we could have possibly avoided this conversation had he read the details first...
It's of my opinion that the fee advertised is below anybody's rate, whether an amateur, music student or professional. As a Musicians' Union member and a WorkNotPlay campaigner, I feel that I have a duty to request that you rethink your recording rates.
The musician's opinion is that the fee advertised is below anybody's rate, whether an amateur, music student or professional.
  1. First, this is the musician's opinion, not fact (which, although a personal entitlement, cannot prove anything). "I feel" = his opinion is purely subjective.
  2. Second, in his personal 'opinion', the musician sets a universalprecedent that is applicable to anyone and everyone, whether an 'amateur', 'music student' or 'professional'. This claim invalidates the experience (documented in this blog) of the production and its musicians since 2009, both on the supplier side and on the client side.
  3. Third, in making this claim, the musician, by extension, demotes the ability, availability and experience of the other musicians on the project (many of whom might be said to have had more experience than he does) in their prior acceptance of and current involvement in the project.
  4. Note that the musician is a recent graduate of the Royal College of Music, and therefore might be said to have relatively little life experience compared to the other musicians who are already involved in the project. His negative attitude signifies a lack of integrity, which may put him out of work.
Have a look at this article and the WorkNotPlay campaign for how the music industry and musicians become more devalued every time very low paid 'work' is offered.
The musician cites how musicians become more devalued every time very low paid 'work' is offered.

Several contradictions here:
  1. ​​First, the musician devalues himself by not having checked the details of the job before applying, thereby putting himself in a position of conflict from the outset in the act of putting himself forward, when the details were advertised clear and accessible to all.
  2. Second, the musician has approached us for the work and not the other way around, and is in no negotiating position to dictate such rates.
  3. Third, the musician hasn't been offered the job yet, and is in no negotiating position to dictate such rates.
  4. Fourth, (aside from the fact that the musician hasn't checked the details before applying) is the reality that musicians devalue themselves and one another by frequently breaching agreements - see musician Cancellation and Absences for a taster of the many examples on this blog.
  5. Fifth, the musician puts 'work' in apostrophes. This implies that the musician has little respect for the work, perhaps seeing himself 'above' the requirements of the work; a face value judgement made purely on the basis of the fee.
  6. Note the musician's use of the word 'busy': indicating a contradiction (by the fact that he's applying for work) and signifying a possible conflict of interest situation further down the line.

What is the incentive of paying Musicians' Union rates in this particular scenario? To put the label out of pocket and give one musician an unfair reward over the other musicians? Only to increase the Risk Factor of the musician cancelling his agreement in the event/project/production as and when he feels like it, just because he's received a more lucrative offer elsewhere?. In what position does this leave the label, now that the musician has effectively 'run off' with their money and the label has nothing to show for it?

We understand that the musician wants to negotiate, but they must understand that a music label is a business like many others and cannot run at a loss. We can negotiate on rates if they can supply concrete benefits that make an impact on the artist's bottomline for running the project. We're not entirely sure what the musician means by 'rethink your recording rates'; if there is no incentive, there is no reason to rethink recording rates. What is the musician bringing to the negotiation table in terms of concrete benefits?

Fundamentally, it's not fair to pay one musician more than the other musicians without such an incentive. Especially if they're an unknown quantity and putting themselves out there for the job for the first time, and haven't contributed to the production over a number of years as have many of the other musicians (who've done so out of choice, not because they were forced to do so in any way). Expecting something for nothing. Surely it's better to be honest, informative and transparent about the rates you're offering than not to be?

The musician has no right to dictate such rates if he's approaching us for the work and not the other way around. Had we approached the musician, or if we decide to in the future following on from the below correspondence? Then yes, the situation would be very different and the musician would be well within his rights to dictate such rates. And yes, we would reconsider. In approaching him, we'd be giving him the 'upper hand' in this particular business exchange. For the record, we've read and are happy to re-post what he's sent us in case anyone wishes to read. While the linked articles make a very fair and reasonable argument; unfortunately, they have no bearing in this particular scenario. Considering that the production was founded from an unpaid Spotlight concert opportunity, ironically, organised by the RNCM's Professional Development Department (March 2009)! It's a sombre reminder of that many businesses/enterprises have to start somewhere and cannot be expected to adhere to a universal set standard (neither temporally nor financially) if it bears no relevance to the level that they are currently working.

The bottom line is this:
  1. We take no issue that the musician has declined the work on the basis that he charges higher rates than those advertised (aside from the fact that he could have perhaps read the details before applying, which would've saved him from entering into this dialogue in the first place). That's fine, take it or leave it, we respect that.
  2. We do take issue with the fact that the musician has then tried to criminalise the label for paying less than what might be prescribed as a universal 'going rate'. We've declined our fair share of work in the past; not because we believe it to fall short of anyone's rates but because they fall under our rates, which we've structured ourselves, based on our experience. Not something that's written in a manifesto. Herein lies the crucial difference.
  3. The misunderstanding is that the musician believes himself to be entitled to something that's not on offer, that's not even there and that doesn't exist.

The label will not be criminalised for creating ex nihilo paid work that might be considered 'sub-standard' purely on the basis of the fee. This is an extremely narrow-minded view. If you don't like what we pay, don't put yourself forward. The fact that the label still exists in such an 'industry' after 5 years indicates we've decided to budget when given a choice of sink or swim. Privatise and deregulate. Put the power back into the hands of the negotiator. Increment levels of pay according to ability, availability and experience. With this in mind, Pre-requisite #1, which has been in place ever since 2010, still stands:
We do not encourage proposals from temperamental "drifters" who just want to try it out a couple of times for the cash / credential, cause a drama and then disappear.
From: Claire
Subject: Re: Trombonist for Diáspora
Date: 7 March 2018 at 17:00:00 GMT
To: MS
Cc: Rory
Hi MS,
No problem. I'll make a note of it.
Best regards, 
Claire Maillot

On 7 Mar 2018, at 16:13, MS wrote:
Hi Claire,
Thanks for your message.
It's of my opinion that the fee advertised is below anybody's rate, whether an amateur, music student or professional. As a Musicians' Union member and a WorkNotPlay campaigner, I feel that I have a duty to request that you rethink your recording rates. Have a look at this article and the WorkNotPlay campaign for how the music industry and musicians become more devalued every time very low paid 'work' is offered.
Thanks for your time.
MS

On 7 March 2018 at 16:00, Claire wrote:
Hi MS,
Thank you for contacting Red & Black Music.
I appreciate that the fee advertised on http://www.redandblackmusic.co.uk/jobs/trombone-diaspora is understandably below your usual working rate. Therefore, I believe that the post is not suitable for your needs and I would advise you seek alternative work elsewhere.
In any case, I’d like to thank you for your interest and we hope to work with you on another occasion.
Best Regards,
Claire Maillot

On 7 Mar 2018, at 15:36, Rory Duffy wrote:
FYI
Begin forwarded message:

From: MS
Subject: Re: Trombonist for Diáspora
Date: 7 March 2018 at 15:30:12 GMT
To: Rory

Hi Rory,
Thanks for your response.
As a professional musician, I would find it very difficult to work for the rate of £10 per hour. My typical recording rate is £50 an hour, but I would happy to lower that to £30 an hour if funds are understandably tight.
Let me know if that's possible as I'd love to work with the group.
All the best,
MS

On 7 March 2018 at 15:19, Rory wrote:
Hi MS
No it’ll be £10 per hour of recording plus expenses (travel, food). Not sure what’s on the Facebook post or on the website but that’s our usual recording rate. I’ve Cc’d Claire so she can check.
Cheers
Rory

On 7 Mar 2018, at 15:16, MS wrote:
Hi Rory,
I've just seen on this facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ukmusiciansforgigs/permalink/2010005722346290/ which says that the fee for the recording session is "£10.00 per hour, Value: £10". I'm not quite sure what this means; does it mean that each recording session is just one hour long for payment of £10?
Thanks,
MS

On 7 March 2018 at 14:08, Rory wrote:
Hi MS
Great, look forward to meeting you then.
Cheers
Rory

On 6 Mar 2018, at 22:44, MS wrote:

Hi Rory,
6:30pm on Tues 13th is perfect, thanks! I look forward to meeting you then.
All the best,
MS

On 6 March 2018 at 15:33, Rory wrote:
Hi MS
Yes next Tuesday 13th is fine with me. Would 6:30pm work for you?
My address is [address].
Cheers
Rory

On 6 Mar 2018, at 10:27, MS wrote:
Hi Rory,
Thanks for getting back to me, and for the group's background, sounds really interesting.
Really enjoyed listening to Summertime too, I love the style!
This week is quite busy for me and I'm working out London this weekend. Are you around next Tuesday 13th? I'm teaching in Stockwell until 6pm so that would be ideal.
I look forward to meeting you soon.
All the best,
MS

On 5 March 2018 at 13:51, Rory wrote:
Hi MS
Thanks for getting in touch, it’s great to hear from you.
Bit of background: Formed in Spring 2009, Diáspora’s music celebrates the unity and diversity of rhythms that emerged out of the African Diaspora and their dissemination throughout Latin America. Ranging 5-12 piece, performances over the years have included jazz clubs, corporate functions, weddings, festivals and even house parties. Diáspora is currently finalising the debut album, mainly compositions. We’re looking for a replacement for George who is now permanently based up north, to participate in the Diáspora demo and album recordings, and album artwork photo shoot.
Since it’s a large ensemble, everything is recorded separately and layered on top of one another so it’s a less formal arrangement than having everyone in a studio at once (although we do record kit/timbales, congas and sometimes bass in the studio). The only time everyone is required to be together is for the photo shoot.
Would you be available for a quick meet to run through a couple of pieces and chat about the projects? I can do:-
Wednesday anytime after 5pm
Thursday anytime after 5pm
Friday anytime after 5pm
This weekend anytime
I’ve attached a sample score here from the 1st album for us to try (Mp3 also attached), and I’ll also spring a 2nd example on you for when we meet.
If you could let me know when you’d like to come then that would be brilliant. I’m based in Stockwell.
Cheers
Rory

On 5 Mar 2018, at 13:05, MS wrote:
Dear Diáspora,
I've just seen your job advertisement on www.redandblackmusic.co.uk/jobs/trombone-diaspora and I'm very interested in applying.
I'm a recent graduate of the Royal College of Music, London. I have great sight reading abilities, live in West London and am very organised. I have experience in many genres of music, from classical to jazz and lots of experience playing in function bands and recording sessions. Jazz, Latin and Salsa music are three of my most favourite styles to listen to and to play. As an arranger as well as a trombonist, I have lots of knowledge of jazz harmony. I also am adept at jazz improvisation.
Have a look at my website at for music demos and for the full list of my experience at.
Let me know if you're still in need for a trombonist on this project, as I would love to audition and take part.
All the best,
MS

UK musicians for gigs

Claire Red shared a link.
March 5 at 11:19am
We are recruiting!
Closing date: ASAP
Contact email: [email protected]
http://www.redandblackmusic.co.uk/jobs/trombone-diaspora

More info:
www.diasporamusic.co.uk

Trombone, Diáspora
Latin / salsa band Diáspora is looking for a freelance trombone player based in London who can participate in recording for the album + demo. For more information on Diáspora , please visit ...
REDANDBLACKMUSIC.CO.UK

Nicola H
​MS

MS
Thanks Nicola!

Sam D
Me, potentially! Will email when I get a mo.

Dom K **PLEASE STATE FEES IN THE ORIGINAL BODY OF YOUR POST AS PER THE RULES OF THIS GROUP ELSE IT WILL BE REMOVED BY ADMINS**

Claire Red
Hello Dom,
Fee
£10.00 per hour
Value: £10.00
Fee
£10.00 per scene photo shoot
Value: £10.00
Many thanks,
Best Regards,
Claire

Dom K
​This is well under MU minimum rates and a derisory offer. The MU/BPI rate is a minimum of £120 per 3hr session, see here : http://bit.ly/MU-BPI

Manage
theMU - BPI MU Agreements
MUSICIANSUNION.ORG.UK

Claire Red http://www.redandblackmusic.co.uk/blog/musicians-union-rates

Comments are closed.

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    Red & Black Music was set up in 2012 to stop musicians cancelling.

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